tv [untitled] September 19, 2011 11:00pm-11:30pm PDT
>> it was. >> and it is heavily reenforced. as you walk around, you will see large steel members and all sorts of other kinds of reenforcement, which are really done as well as i've ever seen this done in san francisco. >> we were also the first building to be seismically r reenforced k bracing after the quake in '89. >> what was the '89 earthquake for you like in the glazing business? >> again, the good news was most of the windows were broken in the city. the bad news was all of our inventory here all fell over. so we had about eight debris boxes of inventory that we shoveled out. but we have very good relationship with our supplier. so it came in just as fast as it went out. so we were bs busy, busy. working 24 hours a day.
>> what were the notable jos, did you do the neiman marcus in. >> no. i-mag is a beautiful building, beautifully designed, except all the windows were in stainless steel frames, and the glass that have installed was glass that wasn't tempered, and they were glazed very, very tightly with a putty that had a hardener in it. so it was like they were encased in concrete, essentially. and so there was no room for these things to go, or to wiggle at all. so they all broke. well 85% of them broke. >> so the code requires that glazing not take the load of the building, as the building moves. the glazing is not supposed to be the element that resists the force of the building, because that is not going to work.
glazing will break. and we can see now, in almost all buildings, that there is some kind of attachment system that allows the building to flex, and it does not harden. and we very carefully inspect and require a careful inspection of that and you have a handout today that has many of the code requirements in it and we can provide that handout if anybody wants to call us or pick one up here. you said eneeled glass. what is that. >> that was it, that was -- well, glass. and it is -- they heat up the glass. they pour it. and they let it cool. but they put it into a special eneeling oven so that it cools down gradually. it can be broken. >> is this used for window glass? >> window glass is eneeled
glass. the eneeling is important because if you just let it cool naturally it sets up strain patterns and will break by itself. it gets very, very fragile. so the eneeling is good. buttarily on, we had this -- but early on we had this interesting product called tempering. it's a crazy thing. you heat the glass up again, and you cool it down really fast, and then all of a sudden it sets up strain patterns within the surface of the glass that makes it impact resistance. and when it breaks, whoa, it makes it into a thousand tiny little crystals. and so it's, at that time, a new product. unusual. since then, it's common. i mean almost all glass that we sell, other than table tops for windows, is tempered glass. >> do we have some regular glass
we can take a look at. >> we do. >> i think we're all familiar with it. >> well, this is just your basic window pane glass. and -- >> and it can be cut to size. >> it can be cut, and quickly. so you're going to use this for, you know, small windows, and picture frames, things like that. >> you would not use that in what are considered hazardous locations in a door, or next to a door, next to a walking surface. >> window glass is really not a mysterious thing. but it's great material. it's quick. it's easy. the problem is you get something that -- it's actually stronger than you think, huh. oops. ashes to ashes, dust to dust. but you can see, it's really not meant for safety glazing. i remember as a kid, you know, running -- my brother chasing
me, running with my hat, putting my hat -- when the door used to be open, and it's now closed. i still have a scar there. but at this point, of course, anything in a door is going to be tempered. >> or some other type of sait glazing. -- safety glazing. it could be laminated. >> or plaque. >> there's an interesting new product, and i don't know if you're been dealing with it, you probably have, which is two layers some kind of glass, with a film of plastic, but it's actually an intoo mess ens material and as it heats up, it foams up and forms a fire protective barrier within the glass. you can use these glazing units as a wall. they're actually not windows, they're walls. and we've seen this being used around san francisco, so that you have a fully rated, tested wall, that might be a one-hour wall, which is your typical property line wall, which is
transparent, until there's a fire, when it changes, foams comes up. >> is that the kind of glass you would use for a balcony if you wanted to see through and have a protective shield? >> no. you don't want to use that product if you don't want to because it's inexpensive. >> i've heard it's $60 a quair foot. is that anywhere near -- >> no. you know, this can be closer to twice that, anyway. >> really. >> and so the -- and it would require a special frame. it requires a steel frame. for a balcony, what you would expect to see is half inch tempered glass. and that's really not very expensive. and but the thing there is, you're going to have to probably do it in pieces so that, in case one of those pieces broke, you'd
still have that handrail that goes across the top of that, keeping you back so that you aren't falling over with the broken glass. >> right. and the code talks about other types of protection. you can't just have a single piece of glass, without some other type of protection, and it's in this handout that you have here. >> that code may change with the advent of special materials. eventually, we will come and say -- and it's been supplied in different cities, where we take a century -- it's called century guard, whereas there is this piece of plastic in between a couple of pieces of one eneeled, and one heat treated and the other tempered, so that even if it broke it stays together and stays rigid. so there really isn't reason then for that top handrail.
>> the building code in san francisco says that we can approve products that are not specifically required or meet the requirements of the building code, if can be shown to us that there's a rational basis for approval, that they're meeting the intent of the code. we can approve an alternate method or material and we do that a lot now, especially with new materials flooding the market. we have to look at things on a case by case, use by use basis, and we would consider this sort of thing. protective glazing, wired glass, we see traditionally all over. >> so we've got wired glass here. you know, it's a product that we used to sell a lot of. but almost a product whose time has come. i mean this is an obscure wire glass, with -- it's rated 45 minutes for fire. but the problem is there's no impact. so this is not -- at one time,
you could put this in a fire door, only in a -- there was a time when they put this in shower doors. and so clearly that's not legal anymore, with good reason, besides the fact that all of the wires rusted. there's some pretty nasty-loo nasty-looking shower doors that we replaced. the other thing is it's not terribly strong, cracks easily, and -- >> if you put your hand through it, or to it, you can get seriously injured. it looks like it's supposed to be safe. it is actuall actually not terre for human impact. >> so at this point, there are some -- because it's got wires in it, you really couldn't temper it before. now i believe there is somebody that can temper it. how well it's tempered, i couldn't say. but it's legally tempered. sore sometimes you can put like a safety film on the back of it, and that would give you, again,
some impact protection. but it's really not a contrary product. it's seldom -- we used to go through cases of this stuff. now we sell practically nothing of this. but it breaks -- i mean we all -- primarily what we're seeing this is in sky lights that are existing around town. it holds together, as we see. you know, so this is the advantage. it's all held together. but, you know, it's not a perfect product. and primarily, what's taken its place is laminated glass, which you don't have those wires in it. people don't want to see those wires. and so laminated is probably
most skylights that we do are laminated. or an insulated glass, where the laminated is on the bottom, and tempered is on the top. >> with an air space -- >> with an air space. the laminated, at one time, they used to sell tempered skylights but they really didn't work terribly well. yes it breaks into little safety cubes but if it's falling from 100 feet above -- >> the code had a provision that you had to have a net underneath to catch the pieces, if it broke. >> which i'm using. so at this point, not going there. it's laminated on the bottom, tempered on the top, so that a fireman can really walk over this on the rooftop, and whatever. you know, it's good for the top. bottom is protected. so that's primarily where most wire glass has gone. >> just a comment about
skylights in the building code. skylights of glass can be located at any distance from that property line protection that i mentioned earlier. typically in san francisco when you're on a property line you have to have a one hour wall. olderbles don't have it but after the 60s they do. this can be right up to the edge of the roof. however, a plastic sky light may not be. a plastic sky light has to be kept back how far from the edge of the roof, one of you building inspectors? three feet from the edge of the roof. i'm not sure why but that's specifically regulated. >> partly because the plastic is flammable. the plastic heats up -- the bad part about plastic is that it will burn and melt. at one point in time, lexan was the cure-all for everything.
you can't do this, you can't do that, it's indestructible. a major jewelry store put it in their windows, and they were home-safe, it's perfect. till a enterprising burglar took a hand torch and did a perfect circle in and reached right on through. it melted the perfect little hole and moved on. so what we do the glazing for tiffany's around the united states, and what we do for them is a piece of leksan in the center, half inch leksan and water white and extra star fire on -- >> what is that water white or star fire do? >> it's extra -- glass has -- so the street layers cep them
protected. they -- kept them protected. they haven't had any major burglaries to point. >> somebody is working on it. >> well the product has become expensive because of the three lawyers so they put an additional layer of mylar graffiti film over the outside so in case it's scratched then we pull off that sacrificial layer and put on a new piece of plastic which is cheaper than replacing that whole window. in terms of clarity, the regular glass is fairly green. and the thicker it is, the emreener it gets. this table here is a slumped piece of glass. and it's about two, two and a half inches thick. and that is just the natural color of regular glass. and from different minerals that are in glass, there's -- you know, when it's sand and soda, and whatever minerals are in the
sand gives it the color of the glass. so that's copper and iron that are giving that green look. there's another product called star fire, and that they're opti white is another name, that is nor clear. this is more clear. you can see on the edge, even though we're picking it up, this glass is a little more clear. there's another product called water white which is as clear as plastic, and just really, really clear. and so that's your next grade up in terms of being truly clorlless coralles coralless co. >> tiffany has a product which has as little barrier as possible. >> tiffany does not want you looking at green diamonds. the new laminated glass gives us
different directions on what we can do. certainly we see that used in glass walkways. we're doing -- and of course the code on what can be used for a sky light that you can walk on, a walking surface, is very antiquated, as it's written -- >> it certainly is. it was originally written for the subsidewalk basement areas and other areas where the glazing is broken up into little squares. do you still replace those little glazing squares for the sidewalk? >> we have circles, walking down market street, which again tells you how old am i. we used to have all those little circles, you'd walk down and a lot turned purple with age because the sun was catalyzing. and so there were some little squares, yes. but that's changed. at this point, we do a lot of
stair treads that are one inch thick. it's interesting to see the apple store on market street, where everything is glass. the stair treads are one inch glass, half inch treated on the top, and 0909, polyvinyl beaut rat in between. ordinariarily laminated grass -- it has a 090 tempered piece on the bottom. >> it is remarkable to walk in. the stairs is in front of you and it's transparent, maybe a little bit greenish, maybe, directly in front of you, and it's all glass. beautiful. >> we're doing a lot of areas where you're walking on -- bigger pieces where it's not supported quite so well, we use an inch and a half so you've got three layers of glass, and you
can dance on it or whatever el else. fluid, as a disco bar near the four seasons on mission street for all you younger people. and they've got a lineup to get in there, one of those. and they have this dance floor that's covered with this inch and a half glass. and lights underneath. and it's very impressive. >> i think it's the indian reservation just built a projection of glass over the grand canyon. >> yes. >> and it has a glass floor, i understand. >> yes. >> read anything about that? >> i showed the picture to my wife, and she turned white, and says i'm not going. >> [laughter.] >> so like 2,000 feet straight down on a glass floor, wow. >> but it's perfectly safe, and all that. and that's kind of the excitement of glass, is being able to see through it, except
there is an additional state requirement, ubc, that says, wait a minute, this is all fine and well, but i don't want you slipping on this. and so a certain percentage of that then has to be either sand blasted, or have like little dots on it, like the floors at niketown at union square, when you walk on it, it has raised dots so that you aren't skidding. >> that's a requirement primarily in the disabled access regulations of chapter 11 of the california building code and national ada requirements, which gives it a index of -- what is it called? slip resistant index, coefficient of friction. that's in a path of travel open to the public. there would not be a requirement for slip resistance in a private
dwelling. >> the good news is that there's a new product, which is totally, totally clear, and it's slip resistant. it's like a coating that goes on, you don't know it's there, so the glass can remain totally clear, and you can walk on it, but you don't slip. >> do you have to reapply it? >> no. >> the reapplication is a problem. so when they opened the san francisco center, nordstro nordstrom's downtown, they have ramps on the ground floor, very gentle ramps but highly polish polished. the inspector said this is a slipping hazard and they said we will provide this non-skid material that we're going to paint on every six months or a year. >> the building and fire codes generally do not allow people to have to do something on a continuing basis to meet the requirements of the code. i'm pleased to hear that there's a baked on finish that meets that standard that doesn't have to be reapplied.
>> well because sometimes you're using this. we did a back-painted shower where everything in this shower was chromium green. and -- yeah. >> nice. >> and including the floors. and so it's all back-painted glass. so you don't want to -- i mean, gosh, i could slip -- you could slide on a thing like that. and so it's this non--slip glass. >> i wanted to know what kind of glass is made of -- in tanks, where you can shoot through. >> the answer is it's a laminated glass. they're using a -- but instead of laminating it with a polyvinyl beautate, they're using their own product, which
is a different kind of acrylic that they've got proprietary rights on, that is more gummy, it's something that they have formed there. but it's essentially like a sheet plastic, but of a different configuration, and extra clear, that they laminate between pieces of tempered glasses. those pieces in the tanks are about that thick. and they are slanted so that they can't see glare. and what we have to do in a tank, or -- on the inside, where you are shooting from, is you have to put a laminated piece of glass or plastic to the inside. because the impact of a bullet going towards that glass won't penetrate, but the force of it will create the inside glass to spall. so you've got this sprintering
of glass -- splintering unless you have this on the inside to keep you safe. >> what ems have you got here? >> well, since we're talking about... laminated glass, let's go for -- let's start with maybe patterned glass. patterned glass -- almost all of it starts off as eneeled glass. these are bathroom windows which you'd expect to see, but almost always it's eneeled unless it's in a shower bath or in a hazardous location. as it is, it's going to break the same way that ordinary glass does. and you just can go right on up through the spectrum. this is quarter inch plate.
>> what would that typically be used for? >> well, this has got a slight tint to it. but you would -- again, you would find this on windows, oh, a lot of windows in office buildings are -- buildings downtown on montgomery, all high rises that were -- >> is plate tempered or not tempered, typically? >> plate is not tempered, unless -- >> specifically required, okay. >> so in the old days, it was -- you can look at a spec, and some of the old specs, it will say quarter inch pp, which is a give away of how old the architect is. because if it says quarter inch pp that means quarter inch polished plate. at a time, there was a time when plate wasn't polished. it was just kind of rolled out
and it would have a slight wiggle to it. and because it was poured one end of the glass would be a little thicker at this end, a little thinner at that end. so when we glaze these things you put the thicker end down because that would be the -- and the wife's tale is glass is liquid. thicker in the middle. and we have to explain, no, that's not the case. it was put in that way. >> can you tell us, when they pour it, what do they pour it on? >> well, the whole process changed, really. it would be pouring it probably on a steel kind of thing. but at this point, the process changed largely during -- after
world war ii. set up rebuilt belgium, rebuilt france, rebuilt -- so before all our glass was domestic and after world war ii it became foreign. they had all the new factories and we had the old ones. so they set up a product, and they would pour it and polish it automatically, so it was perfectly flat. and that was the origin of the polished plate. then, subsequently a process came up called float glass. and that was just revolutionized the industry because they poured glass out on a bed of hot tin, voluntary-in tin. why this -- vol tin tin. how they came up with that -- they just poured it on the bed and it was self-leveling and
they made it so fast, cooled it down -- i mean you go to the factory in stockton and it's just like making cellophane or whatever. this comes in, comes out, bam. and it's now, you know, inexpensive and quick. and so the word -- technically it's not polished but it's just plate. it works. and so the question is how thin do you want it. so then your window glass is done the same way now. so it's all done on this little thinner. what we have here is a product -- again, 3/16. this used to be called -- again, the old term was crystal. if you talk to somebody my age, they would say -- because 3/16 was always poured glass and always crystal. they didn't do a twin ground.
so it is the same thing as the quarter inch. and you still see it around because they put it in where they're trying to lighten a way. you want to put it in a window so it's not so heavy on a double-hung. it's a good product, but again, you know. you know, it's like window glass, you just have to hit it just a little harder. plate glass, same way. you know, this is what essentially was in i-magnum. this is what's in the mills building. this is what's in the rust building. this is what's in th in the hurt building. there's putty around them. they're going to shift. the wood kind of comes and goes. so it takes quite a bit to break a piece of plate because -- i mean you can -- this will take quite a bit of vertical weight
but if it gets bound or whatever, you know, if you just get it in the wrong spot, that's what happens. >> we're seeing some major high rises going up near the bay bridge and south of market and i'm wondering what kind of glass is being installed in those towers, and what will be the effect in an earthquake. >> ooh, excellent question. >> oh, boy. i think i will -- the right answer is when you come off of that part of bay, i always get in the left-hand lane. >> [laughter.] >> but there are -- those are tempered. and, you know, presumably, they will shift. and what it depends on how much this whole thing swins, whether there's enough give and take in those frames so that they don't crack. i have seen tempered glass in the los angeles quake, where the tempered glass actually kept the building together.